is Kanban Method an Agile Method ?

A very intersting discussion on Twitter the 09/05/2016 with David J Anderson, founder of the Kanban Method

  • pierre_fauvel:@lki_dja perhaps stupid but frequent question : is Kanban Method an Agile Method ? I’d say there are common parts and different parts
  • lki_dja:@pierre_fauvel hence, #kanban is « the alternative path to agility »!
    • pierre_fauvel:@lki_dja What is the position of Kanban about the agile manifesto ?
      • lki_dja:@pierre_fauvel before you charge people for professional advice about #kanban perhaps you should attend some training? KMP & KCP classes
        • pierre_fauvel:@lki_dja good point ;-) at the time being the question is about the choice of the method
          • lki_dja:@pierre_fauvel #kanban vs #agile method is a false choice. It’s capability to evolve your own vs adopt defined/prescribed process
            • pierre_fauvel:@lki_dja big industrial companies like predefined processes. At least in France
              • lki_dja:@pierre_fauvel yes, industrial mindset. Because they like it, doesn’t mean it will work.Professional services/knowledge work needs new ideas
                • pierre_fauvel:@lki_dja agreed. But to sell it, surfing on the agile wave can help. Thus deguising Kanban in agile clothes.
                  • lki_dja:@pierre_fauvel yes. that is a valid approach used by many coaches/consultants
      • lki_dja:@pierre_fauvel I don’t understand the question? Can you rephrase?
        • pierre_fauvel:@lki_dja as a Kanban referent, would you sign the agile manifesto ? Do you share agile values and principles described in it ?
          • lki_dja:@pierre_fauvel see my Agile 2008 conference Mainstage video for an answer to this question
          • lki_dja:@pierre_fauvel I don’t think you quite understand, I was there before we called it #agile. I was also at the 10 Year Anniversary in Snowbird
            • pierre_fauvel:@lki_dja let me reformulate. You were part of something. Part of it became agile methodologies. You continued a different part, Kanban. ?
              • lki_dja:@pierre_fauvel « an alternative path to agility » a method that let’s you evolve your own uniquely tailored processes specific to your context
                • pierre_fauvel:@lki_dja if i have 100 teams in a company i have 100 contexts ?
                  • lki_dja:@pierre_fauvel 100 teams could be 1 context collaborating together or 100 contexts or anything in between. ~10-20 maybe typical
                  • lki_dja:@pierre_fauvel depends. Do the teams collaborate on same customer service delivery and workflow? Context is a business context
                    • pierre_fauvel:@lki_dja lets consider for the discussion that they don’t. They adress different, separate business needs.
                      • lki_dja:@pierre_fauvel you should consider reading my #kanban & Lessons in #agile management books, taking @leankanbanu training. These will help
                        • pierre_fauvel:@lki_dja I’ve read the kanban book (with interest). I should start the other one ;-) do you plan a third ? The first was clear & synthetic
                          • lki_dja:@pierre_fauvel I plan several more. I have several partially complete. Dealing with your industrial context is a topic I need to address
                      • lki_dja:@pierre_fauvel then you have 100 contexts. You could have 100 unique process definitions. Each will evolve on its own
                        • pierre_fauvel:@lki_dja our quality controllers won’t like that. 100 different ways to control !
                          • lki_dja:@pierre_fauvel learn to control with fitness criteria metrics not through process compliance
                            • pierre_fauvel:@lki_dja thats a transformation !
                              • lki_dja:@pierre_fauvel I’m sympathetic to your situation. I’ve seen it many times before. I must address with new guidance. Thanks for inspiration
                                • pierre_fauvel:@lki_dja thx for the time you took for this discussion. Would you allow me to relate it in my blog ?
                          • lki_dja:@pierre_fauvel try @ChrisAch’s #kanban Kickstart Guide. Consider taking @leankanbanu KCP class & visiting our Retreat in Barcelona in July
                          • lki_dja:@pierre_fauvel as a crutch the work of @ChrisAch will help you. He also works in a big industrial context
                          • lki_dja:@pierre_fauvel you need to get them out of the industrial mindset. There is no economy of scale in professional services
                            • pierre_fauvel:@lki_dja +1
              • lki_dja:@pierre_fauvel « an alternative path to agility ». An approach that gives you the benefit of outcomes without the pain of change/adoption
              • lki_dja:@pierre_fauvel by 2003, I recognized that resistance to adoption of #agile methods hindered scaling. I looked for an alternative
                • pierre_fauvel:@lki_dja so you adopted an evolutive framework to ease adoption ?
                  • lki_dja:@pierre_fauvel I adopted an evolutionary approach because it gets you to the desired business outcome much faster with lower risk
    • pierre_fauvel:@lki_dja my customer is doing an « agile transformation » however i would advise Kanban in some cases (run) and agile in other(build).
      • lki_dja:@pierre_fauvel i don’t understand what « (run) » or « (build) » means in this context. #kanban is the antithesis of #agile transformation
        • pierre_fauvel:@lki_dja build a new application (from scratch) vs run an application ( fix bugs and add evolutions )
          • lki_dja:@pierre_fauvel why would you give that advice? because #agile methods are easier to adopt? Do you need optionality in your « build » process?
            • pierre_fauvel:@lki_dja i think i would need optionality
              • lki_dja:@pierre_fauvel then a #kanban system gives you an advantage. Have you read my Tyranny of Ever Decreasing Timebox blog post?

A propos pierrefauvel

People and It. Pragmatic. Hard core Zen. Human and Social systems.
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